Constitution Club

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Consent

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I’m too tired, so I’m letting Dave Chappelle do my talking.

Written by Wes

October 30, 2007 at 10:30 pm

Posted in Culture

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12 Responses to 'Consent'

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  1. I am supposed to invest six minutes of my life to glean wisdom from an insane man, why? He is funny, but he has profound mental problems. I am being serious, he is troubled.

    Sarcasm is not wisdom; parody does not offer effective solutions. Humor is fine, but that is all it is.

    So please forgive me; but I choose not to bite. When you are rested, I would love to hear your opinion.

    pgwarner

    31 Oct 07 at 9:04 am

  2. Point taken about Dave Chappelle, though if you want to ignore the thoughts of anyone with mental health issues, there’s a lot of really intelligent people you’re going to have to ignore. And if you want to ignore the wisdom of humorists, you’re going to miss out on a hell of a lot there, too. Comedians get away with things most people can’t. Similar to how Rod Serling was able to comment on the times by diluting his satire through science fiction. At any rate, it’s a funny bit. You should watch.

    The essence of the bit is that 15 is old enough for a boy in Florida to be sentenced to prison for life, but not old enough to decide whether or not you want to have sex. If a 15 year old boy rapes a 25 year old woman, he’d go to jail for that, too, and rightly so. That’s about as sensationalistic a concept as you can come up with, sure, but it leads to the other part of the bit about the R. Kelly case. The gist of that part is that at 15, most of us are old enough to know whether or not we want to get peed on. And also ties into what I was saying the other day, that kids who want to have sex do, kids that don’t don’t, and there’s not a damn thing anyone can really do to stop that. Age of consent is an arbitrary number that does not necessarily correspond to any physical age. And if a 15 year old kid is out there seducing older guys (particularly ones that go to the same high school that they do), the guy shouldn’t be the one getting in trouble. If you want to talk about solutions, maybe change the law to exempt kids who have sex with anyone two years away from their own age under the age of consent. That way 19 year olds can have sex with 17 year olds but not 16 year olds, and 17 year olds can have sex with 15 year olds but not 14 year olds. Maybe the law would demonstrate a need to break it down further, and I still think that prison might generally be a flawed solution for an emotional and developmental problem, but that’d be a good start.

    Wes

    31 Oct 07 at 9:50 am

  3. I don’t think that you and I are very far apart on the consent issue. See the comment I made in response to Dana in The Scribe’s post.

    pgwarner

    31 Oct 07 at 10:21 am

  4. I should say that I do not believe the age of consent is an arbitrary number as you say. I think society has tweaked it over thousands of years. Of course individuals will vary, but we can not make laws based on that. Funny, it is the kids who are self assured and mature who are the most capable of giving consent. Yet they are most likely to choose not to engage in sex at an early age. The ones who give and become victimized are the ones least capable.

    Young girls are not the ones responsible if they have sex with an older person.

    Finally, there really is nothing to learn from R Kelly, except he belongs in jail. Most 15 year olds are not capable of being responsible in any real sense.

    On second thought, maybe we dont agree with that much. Suffice it to say, I do not believe sex within a persons peer group should be considered rape.

    pgwarner

    31 Oct 07 at 10:36 am

  5. How can you say it isn’t an arbitrary number when there are plenty of emotionally immature 16 and 17 year old people that make the same mistakes? Consent is something that doesn’t correlate to readiness or understanding or even the ability to think in one’s own best interests. But that’s not limited to teenagers. A KID is unable to consent to something like this, because they don’t understand what is going on or why. A teenager knows what’s going on, or at least one who is getting peed on by R. Kelly does. What he did was criminal, but a 16 or 17 year old girl where it was legal would be just as incapable emotionally of giving consent. Anyone agreeing to let R. Kelly urinate on them has emotional problems that go beyond the court system.

    I stand by my statement earlier about what should be codified in law. But physical age of consent is still an arbitrary and imperfect measurement.

    Wes

    31 Oct 07 at 12:00 pm

  6. All age related decisions are arbitrary and imperfect. The right to drink, smoke, drive, vote, and suddenly being an ‘adult’ on the day you turn eighteen. That doesn’t mean age related laws should not be enacted and enforced. I think the focus and spirit of most consent laws is (and should be) to protect teenagers (especially younger ones) from being preyed upon by often quite older males. A nineteen year old on a thirteen year old or a twenty five year old with a fifteen year old. Both scenarios happening more often than one would like to think. Overall, I second pgwarners moderate and reasonable take on the issue.

    Dave the Infidel Sage

    31 Oct 07 at 12:13 pm

  7. Everyone’s take is pretty reasonable, I think. I’m not sure we differ here much at all when it comes to what the law needs to be, which is surprising to me. We might disagree from the perspective of morality, but I think that we all agree what should be codified into law.

    Wes

    31 Oct 07 at 1:49 pm

  8. If you have raised children then you know that mental, emotional and personal development is very dependent on age. As the father of a teenage girl (She’s 14) the Beast is very well aware that 15 is not an age where they they can be trusted to make informed decisions about much of anything yet. They are children with Boobs. The number is not arbitrary at all.

    hairybeast

    31 Oct 07 at 6:54 pm

  9. Ultimately, I think that was the real point of Dave Chappelle’s whole thing. That if you think they aren’t accountable when they have sex with older people, why would you hold them to a lifetime of accountability in regards to something else? That if a teenager is old enough to fully understand the ramifications of murder, why is he not old enough to understand the ramifications of sleeping with his teacher?

    Again, it’s a loaded question, but not without a point.

    Wes

    1 Nov 07 at 8:23 am

  10. Wes, your comments in #9 indicates a complete lack of understanding of the situation. There is a difference between consent and competency. I am very glad I did not waste my time listening to that nitwit if that was his point.

    You desire a world without consequences. Nobody said kids should not have sexual accountability. If a 15 year old girl has sex, life will hold her accountable! That is the point! Life’s consequences are what you are trying to protect her from. The point is not to punish her because sex is dirty and she wanted to get her joy on, it is to try and prevent it in the first place. You are so 180 on this my friend.

    You are stunted by looking through the prism that religious people are “prudes”. That is your problem, not your insightful perspective. Besides, a person does not need to look at these types of events from a religious perspective to conclude as you see your opposition concluding. You just need to watch the events unfold.

    pgwarner

    1 Nov 07 at 1:07 pm

  11. I don’t desire a world without consequence, just one without someone trying to protect me from myself. I desire liberty, you desire order. Different and mutually exclusive priorities. Of course kids who have sex have consequences, the question is a matter of what will prevent those consequences best.

    Beyond that is a debate we’ve already had. Though I will say that it’s a little silly to say I think it’s a religious thing and then acknowledge that other non-religious people hold the same beliefs that I disagree with. Keep barking up the anti-religious tree if you want, but I won’t bite.

    Wes

    1 Nov 07 at 1:35 pm

  12. Beast: If you have raised children then you know that mental, emotional and personal development is very dependent on age.

    I’m guessing, HB, that even some of us who haven’t raised children might be aware of that, but who knows?

    DFV the Scribe

    1 Nov 07 at 8:26 pm

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