I am just your humble messenger.
Pat Sajak makes sense about celebrities offering their pearls of political wisdom to us, the unwashed. Pat is a conservative btw.
… The idea of choosing the Leader of the Free World based on the advice of someone who lives in the cloistered world of stardom seems a bit loony to me.
How anyone with an IQ above a turnip could think Ron Paul has anything besides insanity to offer escapes me.
Terrorists are “just hoodlums and convicts, so to speak, but we incite them with our foreign policy,” he said.
Yes Virginia, there really is such a thing as the fat police! You are too fat and we dont want you burdening our socialized health care system.
A British woman planning to start a new life with her husband in New Zealand has been banned from entering the country - because she is too fat.
The medium is the, no the argument is the, no the framing is the, ah never mind. Remember kiddos, its not what you say, but how you frame it! “What you talkin bout Amanda?”
The concern here is the framing issue, a la George Lakoff. When you argue inside someone else’s frames, you reinforce them.
UPDATE
Since he had nobody to copy off of, Senator Joe “I’m an Excellent Forgienistic Dude” Biden decided to invent things instead of plagiarizing.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has a friend in Joe Biden, the Delaware senator who fancies himself a candidate for president made clear at a campaign appearance in Portsmouth, N.H., reports the Portsmouth Herald:
Biden stated unequivocally that he will move to impeach President Bush if he bombs Iran without first gaining congressional approval.
“The president has no authority to unilaterally attack Iran, and if he does, as Foreign Relations Committee chairman, I will move to impeach,” said Biden, whose words were followed by a raucous applause from the local audience.
Biden said he is in the process of meeting with constitutional law experts to prepare a legal memorandum saying as much and intends to send it to the president.
Biden–who as chairman of the Judiciary Committee presided over the travesties that were the Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings–apparently is either ignorant or contemptuous of the Constitution. Presumably one of those legal experts will inform him that as a senator, he has no authority to “move to impeach” anyone. That power rests solely with the House.
Just another Democrat who wants to tell our enemies what we will or wont do. Uh Joe, a president can not have his commander in chief authority taken away by congress, that would be unconstitutional.
Under the heading of what is good for the goose…
But the Seattle Times reports that Rep. Norm Dicks, a Democrat and fellow traveler of Murtha’s, made the same point on his recent trip to Iraq:
In Baghdad’s Green Zone, Dicks and his group, led by Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., the chairman of the Defense Appropriations Committee, were briefed by U.S. military leaders about their concerns that the Iraqi government is squandering the breathing room given it by the escalation of American troops. When his group sat down with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, Dicks said, “we were very disappointed about the lack of reconciliation, and the lack of urgency.” Maliki just nodded, Dicks said.
He reminded Maliki and his ministers that they need to pass legislation on sharing oil revenues and power among Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis.
“But I felt kinda embarrassed telling the Iraqis they had to get their act together and pass legislation when we can’t do it back here,” he said.
Dave - the Infidel Sage
gurusteve
E the Wise
DFV the Scribe
Andre the Defiant
Wes
pg - your humble messenger
hairybeast
Drowning Creek
How can you possibly think that we aren’t inciting terrorism with our foreign policy of the last 60 years? There are plenty of free countries around the world with robust capitalist democracies, yet they aren’t targeted… what’s the difference? You people who refuse to even entertain the question of “what might we be doing to contribute to the situation” are deaf and blind. Unfortunately, you’re not also mute.
Google Ron Paul.
I’m with Dave. Our policies seem like they’ve almost universally strengthened their organization, given them more visibility and given them a specific cause for recruiting new members. Which is the pattern it always seems to follow. Safety now that creates a bedrock for more radicalism later. Then again, I should know better than to argue foreign policy with you by now. And I won’t.
You are with Dave, ok, that is funny. He is a Paul follower, oh well go figure.
Clinton had Paul’s approach. We then had the embassy bombings, the Cole bombing, and 9/11.
Hell yes, works for me.
I have no idea how you could claim that AQ has been universally strengthened based on what has been going on the last six months.
Just hoodlums and convicts, my ass!
“There are plenty of free countries around the world with robust capitalist democracies, yet they aren’t targeted… what’s the difference?”
God ! Those countries aren’t that free ! Yes they maybe have “robust capitalist democracies” and “robust repression methods” or “robust corruption” too. But you seem to think that Amercia ISN’T a particular country because it’s the most powerful.
I’m an european actually. I don’t want to judge anyone here, I just consider that it’s when America retires that problem starts growing and then, one day, explode.
Here in Europe, there’s no turning back, we lost every politic we made, you, America, are the future, you know it much better than I can do.
I pray for America to be always the number one
Sincerely and atlantisticly yours
(Sorry for my so-bad english)
Welcome to Conclub Agnus. I think I have seen you post before.
Please feel free to post more. We welcome your comments, and your english is just fine.
If ME IN 08 should get himself an avatar. So should Dana. The Beast needs a bio too.
How did any of you function before I came along? Yeah, I know, shove it and piss off, I got it.
The Beast has a bio - just has not added it yet and anyway PG, you used up the last text widget. Looks like 9 is the max.
But great post, PG!
Dave:
Of course we are not inciting terrorists with our foreign policy; unless you consider killing them to prevent slaughter and rapine incitement. That’s like complaining that the U.S. Government was creating more Confederate Soldiers by fighting the South to save the Union. Or perhaps it’s more of that typical lefty “Blame America First” mindset. Islamofascists hate us for who we are (non-Muslim liberal democracy), not just what we do. And most major capitalist western democracies ARE targeted, despite (or perhaps because of) their unwillingness to fight back.
France - Riots
Denmark, Sweden, The Netherlands - riots, rape, murder.
England - Riots, Rape, Murder, Bombings.
Canada - Attempted Bombings, Assassination.
Spain - Bombings, Assassinations.
Italy - Bombings, Assasinations.
Greece - Bombings.
Belgium - well not much, but hey - it’s Belgium!
Look it up for yourself at state.gov - Significant Terrorist Incidents, 1961-2003: A Brief Chronology
I should get myself an avatar. I’ve got a bit of a busy weekend going but I’ll see what I can do. Welcome Agnus. It’s interesing to see a non-American’s opinion.
As for the topic at hand I do agree in part that our war on terror is helping recruit terrorists. Every time there’s a civilian casualty in Iraq it gives them a platform to stand on and say we are killing innocent people. Don’t get me wrong things like that happen in war and I have the utmost faith that our military goes out of their way to avoid civilian casualties.
I’ve got to admit Paul does kind of have a point. Our continued support of Israel is #1 on the terrorists why we hate you list followed closely by our troops stationed in their “holy land.” I’m not saying we should change what we are doing but that’s why they’re after us.
On the other hand I wouldn’t say Al Queda has been universally strengthened in fact we have weakened them significantlly. I think there’s a far smarter way to fight this war though from here on. We should concentrate our efforts on covertly infiltrating and eliminating terrorist organizations. If wwe can do that effectively which I believe is possible we could avoid the diplomatic CF that would result from an invasion of Iran.
Israel is the reason? No, I don’t think so, radical Islam needs no excuse. If Israel is the reason please explain this.
I also have to tell that the idea of relying on infiltration as a means of “eliminating” as you put, a cell driven organization like AQ is, well its laughable.
Who is talking about invading Iran?
The presence of AQ in Iraq was, and is now, heavily made up of foreign fighters, not Iraqis. Your premise of “every time there’s a civilian casualty” does not hold water. There is absolutely NO real evidence that this idea is anything more than a myth. If you have evidence to the contrary, let me know.
I am sorry ME, but yours, Paul’s and Wes’ view presupposes that you are dealing with rational people. How in the world can you think that? These people give a sentence of 200 blows (which is more than a hundred more than is needed to cause death) to a rape victim. There is a mob outside of a middle aged teachers cell yell for her to be executed for naming a teddy bear Muhammad.
I understand you believe all this, but what are these beliefs based on?
As far as Israel I’m not blaming them. Lord knows those people are scapegoated enough and I’m not going to jump on the bandwagon but every terrorist that has attacked or threatened to attack America has cited our support of Israel for one of their reasons. Maybe they don’t need an excuse but that’s the one they use.
Why is infiltrating a terrorist group laughable? Do you know that it’s been tried and failed?As for invading Iran sorry I did make an assumption there. Generally speaking people who I have spoken to who share your viewpoint are for an invasion of Iran didn’t mean to put words in your mouth.
Of course there’s no real evidence to any terrorist recruitment strategies but I would take the word of the director of the CIA from 2005 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28876-2005Feb16.html
who said
“Islamic extremists are exploiting the Iraqi conflict to recruit new anti-U.S. jihadists,” CIA Director Porter J. Goss told the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
He goes on further but I don’t want to take up too much space. By the way that’s my first attempt at linking something I hope it came out OK.
“Islamofascists hate us for who we are (non-Muslim liberal democracy), not just what we do. And most major capitalist western democracies ARE targeted, despite (or perhaps because of) their unwillingness to fight back.”
That’s the very point !
They’ve hated us (U.S and us, as western countries) far before 9/11, far before U.S.S. Cole and Kenyan Embassy’s strikes. Just look at history (about theologian Qtub and Muslim Brotherhood, or links between the Great Mufti of Jerusalem and Himmler, the chief of the SS sections during world war II).
I read an article last year, it explained how attacking Iraq had materialized war on terror much better than Afghanistan because of the arrival of democracy in a muslim country where so much muslim saint places are. Islamofascicts wanted it for a theocracy, but of course, Saddam was a necessay evil for them (they can considered him as kufr - heretic - but he was an arab and he helped palestinian suicide bombers families with a lot of money - actually, 25 000 $ by family), and they maybe hoped that after his fall, they’ll get power. But, unhappily for them, America came and kicked his ass, and, ho offense ! started to build - although everyone thought is was wrong - a democracy.
So, it’s not only about materializing war on terror, it’s mainly about stand right before the wave and not be afraid about go getting those criminal pigs wherever they are. It’s about building something much tougher than can do our ennemies, because they only want destruction, we want future and construction. That can seem naive, but when you still got the will to act (what lacked here in Europe), it can be real.
Of course, our common ennemies exploits everything they can to have on their side and ranges all the lefty-useful-idiots, to be in good position on the medias propaganda, of course, everything we made, we, westerns fighters, will be said against us.
But we have no way out but fight.
That’s my point of view about war on terror.
Sincerely and atlantisticly yours
(thanks for the welcome all)
ho just a last thing :
Belgium : interdiction of demonstration against islamization in Europe, while a demonstration of Hezbollah was allowed, welcome to the capital of europa…
So? You answered your own question.
I said “also have to tell that the idea of relying on infiltration as a means of “eliminating” as you put, a cell driven organization like AQ is, well its laughable.” I did not say infiltrating terrorist group was laughable, now did I? The idea that you going to bring down a group that is as decentralized as AQ through agents is not workable. That is not how we are doing it now. AQ is not the KGB with a centralized authority and established lines of communications. Brush up on your counter terrorism tactics. If you would like I would be happy to provide links.
Not to step on your toes, but please don’t lump an individual into the amorphous “they”. I know of no one who shares any views even remotely approaching mine who advocates an invasion of Iran. That includes GWB, the evil lurking neocons, or anybody else with half a brain. I would guess you are relying too much on Democratic/Liberal/Progressive talking points, or these individuals you speak of are very uninformed though they may have good intentions. If force is needed to effect a change in Iran, it need not be an invasion.
Your link worked, and good job of Googling. I can see how you could come to the erroneous conclusion you do. After all, the WaPo article you linked to is titled War Helps Recruit Terrorists, Hill Told. However it would behove you to look at what the director actually said. The word he used is “recruit”, not “create”. In fact look at what he was quoted as saying later in the same article…
This article is very interesting when viewed from today’s perspective, for instance…
We have seen the opposite to be true. They came to Iraq and we and the Iraqis have killed them. We have decimated AQ. Some are going to Afghanistan, and that is fine. We can kill them there.
The earlier ‘Dave’ post was not by Dave the Infidel Sage. Just thought I’d clarity that. I actually will be supporting Fred Thompson in the primaries though I like certain things about both Romney and Guiliani as well. Go figure.