Happy “Mission Accomplished” Day
For all of you who told us how wonderful this war was going to be, about stories of WMD and al-Qaeda ties, of cakewalks and how reconstuction was going to pay for itself, how Iraq would be a shining democracy that would be the envy of every Middle East nation, how it was worth the price in blood and treasure:
A toast to you.
Five frakkin’ years. I hope it was worth it.
I agree, I personally blame the following US senators for foisting this war upon the American people. Both parties held hands and jumped into this one together. To say any less is to rewrite history.
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 1, 2008 at 7:54 am
Hey, but gas is cheaper, right?
Jeff
May 1, 2008 at 8:02 am
Much as I disagree with this war I’ve got to say you’re right Dave. The Dems can squawk all they want but they didn’t put a stop to it when they had the opportunity.
Awww dammit I said I wasn’t going to get into this debate again.
thompaine
May 1, 2008 at 8:42 am
Yes, let’s all blame the Democrats. That makes sense. I mean, it’s not like they were manipulated in any way. Or the victim of mass character assassination (damn that cowardly, America-hating veteran Max Cleland!). Or under the impression that war was not already a given.
I’m upset at them, but I don’t think anyone is really fooled. We all know whose idea it was, we all know who ran it, we all know what party had complete control of Congress during the period in which all this occurred (not that they needed it, since Bush asserted unilateral authority whenever possible).
But this horse is long dead. No reason to keep beating it.
Wes
May 1, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Ditto, Wes.
Andre the Defiant
May 1, 2008 at 6:24 pm
And the dems could end it tomorrow if they wanted to. No funding, no war. They’ve had dozens of opportunities to do so but have chosen not too. The Left is being played like a fiddle, and I’m not even sure if they know it.
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 1, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Oh, we know it. Why do you think Congress is at such a low approval rating? We’re not a bunch of knee-jerk Bushies who will support him to the bitter end. If they called me and said “Do you approve of the job Congress is doing”, my response would be “Hell no!”
Of course the obstructionist GOP in the Senate is part of the equation too. 60 votes for everything? That’s just stupid. Whatever happened to the up-or-down cries of McConnell and company?
Andre the Defiant
May 1, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Well, obviously you are not speaking about the fine conservative members of Conclub. If anything, we have blasted the prosecution of the war for several years and we were not the ones crying and screaming against the surge which we have all been calling for years before it finally happened. We are not the ones smearing Petraeus as “Betrayus”, nor are we the ones who bewailed the “passing” of the Hussein boys (as some on the left did) or somehow feel that just a bit of dialogue will put an end to the stand that Al-Qaeda has made in Iraq. If I felt that picking up our ball and going home would end the war and ensure a decent outcome for the nation and people of Iraq I would support it completely. Unfortunately, that is not the case.
I would also like to see the list of wars that the US has been involved in that were not beset by bumbling, poor strategy, unforeseen results due to policies and tactics of the enemy and higher costs than initially believed. I eagerly await that list from Andre. History is a clear teacher that major wars against a determined and fanatical enemy are bloody, hard, and not easily won. The Iraq war has joined that list. That said, appeasement or surrender is not an option unless you are willing to accept responsibility for the possibly horrendous turn of events that might entail.
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 1, 2008 at 7:47 pm
I agree Dave, every war has more than a few cock-ups in it, but if we screwed up during WWII like this we’d all be speaking German. And who, exactly, cried over the deaths of Uday and Whatshisnuts? I anxiously await that list.
Andre the Defiant
May 1, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Your list first. And you should read a bit more about WWII.
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 1, 2008 at 8:37 pm
My list of error free wars…
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You win. Now the crying liberals are?
Andre the Defiant
May 2, 2008 at 11:43 pm
I didn’t ask about error free wars.
I asked you to name one “that the US has been involved in that was not beset by bumbling, poor strategy, unforeseen results due to policies and tactics of the enemy and higher costs than initially believed.”
And much of the things that Andre has complained about has been greatly reduced by “the Surge” that he mocked so vehemently and the general that the Left alternately attacks as some sort of traitor, Bush hack or liar. Nobody is pleased with how things have turned out, least of all conservatives. But that is what happens when you try to fight a PC war with one hand tied behind your back half the time and a peace at any cost party undermining you at every turn.
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 3, 2008 at 7:10 am
Yes it has been.
pg - your humble messenger
May 3, 2008 at 12:09 pm
In the end I hope it will have been. Playing “coulda, woulda, shoulda” certainly doesn’t have bearing on the situation now, does it?
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 3, 2008 at 3:02 pm
It’s called accountability, Dave.
Andre the Defiant
May 3, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Andre occupies no high ground here, except in his mind. No point has been made here though angst riddled foot stomping whines have been attempted as a diversion.
That is a load of bogus crap. Nobody told Andre or anyone else that.
pg - your humble messenger
May 3, 2008 at 7:37 pm
The point here is that we fought the Iraq War to maintain a low gas price? Or it means that the Iraq War is the reason that gas is as high as it is? If you meant one of those please justify it with facts. If it was a trite meaningless jab – dont bother.
pg - your humble messenger
May 3, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Actually, PG, plenty of people told me those things (Cheney, Condi, Rummy, Wolfowitz, Feith, and the president come to mind), and my utter disbeleif in the pile o’ crap they were selling is why I left the GOP. The liberal wacky factor came later.
Andre the Defiant
May 3, 2008 at 7:54 pm
No they did not, not in the way you presented them. You find a quote where one of them said it would be a cakewalk. Or where any of those people said there were AQ ties. Or where one of them claimed reconstruction would pay for itself. FIND ME WHERE ONE OF THEM SAID IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL. Don’t give me “well that’s what they meant”, no it was not.
Your accusations are a load of crap. They are a fantasy your mind made up. Sorry Andre.
If you want to get into details on WMD let me know.
pg - your humble messenger
May 3, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Oh, fuck. I’ll pick one at random…
“There’s a lot of money to pay for this. It doesn’t have to be U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.” -Paul Wolfowitz, testifying before Congress
Andre the Defiant
May 3, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Why do I not believe the “I left the GOP over the war but I became an embracer of everything on the nutty Left later”. It rings hollow, and certainly doesn’t explain why Andre has chucked common sense out of the window to embrace the most brainless of ideologies. It is very easy to be a liberal, just do whatever you want, whenever you want and screw the consequences. Conservatism is the one that insists on taking responsibility for ones actions, that actions have consequences, in self control and self denial and that there really is the concept of right and wrong. It rejects moral relativism and secular humanism. I once heard liberty described as not the freedom to do what you want, but the freedom to do what you ought. I felt that was very profound.
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 3, 2008 at 9:46 pm
By the way Andre, I don’t mean to be piling on. It’s easy to get beat up on the site if you are advocating a minority viewpoint on a subject. Peace be upon you my friend and may your soul find the tranquility that it seeks…or something.
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 3, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Give me the link Andre. There is also a difference between reconstruction and War costs. But I am impressed with you coming up with that quote. How about the other stuff, how about “wonderful”, “a cake walk”, or linked AQ to Iraq? Powell does not count btw, you did not mention him.
The AQ link you want to dishonestly represent as a way the public was misled is BS, just like WMD. The reframing the AQ claim is disingenuous to the extreme. The administration went out of their way to say that they did not believe that Iraq was connected to 9-11. There were some tenuous and tangential ties between AQ and Iraq. Those were mentioned, but not ‘sold’ in the way you claim. There was a history of Aq members residing openly in Iraq.
You are correct in viewing the new liberal angle as the cost of the war. Your minions are correct in telling you to exploit that weakness. Since they have never gained any high ground on the war; selling the high cost of the war is all they have. Trying to fuel the public’s fear about the economy will work in their favor. Funny, I thought the GOP did those kinds of things…
BTW moveon should be happy that you focused on mission accomplished as they asked.
(I have used up my typing quota from my wife today!)
pg - your humble messenger
May 4, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I have minions? Awesome.
Seriously, though here are plenty of dumbassed quotes about Iraq for you PG.
As for “selling” the war, I’ll let the former WHCOS handle that.
“From a marketing point of view, you don’t introduce new products in August.” – Andy Card, explaining why the Bush administration waited until September 2002 to start beating the war drums.
Andre the Defiant
May 4, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I want my own minion. Where do you get one of those? That would be cool.
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 4, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Sorry Andre, I meant ‘your lords’ as you are a minion of course.
You are being a weasel here aren’t you? Not in a bad way, just a wiggly way. I did not ask about Andy Card’s off issue quote, nor did I ask for unrelated quotes that you find amusing. You made specific charges, back them up. Quit dancing. When I am able I will address Wolfwitz’s comment. He was correct btw; oil revenue will be $70 billion this year.
pg - your humble messenger
May 4, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Blasphemy! I only have one Lord, and His name is Kos.
You do realize that about 75% of the country has realized this war was dumb, the people who executed it are dumb, and our elders in Washington who SOLD it to us are really, really dumb, right?
You said it was worth it, so I’ll pose the simplest question possible.
Why?
Andre the Defiant
May 4, 2008 at 8:08 pm
No Andre I will not do you the courtesy of explaining myself right now, because you will not do me the courtesy of backing up your claims. You are again changing the subject. I asked you to back up specific claims you made, that should be easy. Telling me what you think, you claim 75% of the country thinks is not what I asked.
I do not think you are dumb at all, quite the contrary. I do not think it is really a question of intelligence.
You can have the final word now. I have to go to bed and I was passed my typing credits awhile back. I won’t be back for awhile probably.
E is right, my wife is a saint.
pg - your humble messenger
May 4, 2008 at 8:30 pm
PG said – E is right, my wife is a saint.
She has put up with you for all these years so I would have to agree.
Dre I’d love to help you out here as you are hopelessly outnumbered but I have given up on this debate…. sorry.
thompaine
May 5, 2008 at 7:51 am
I don’t we should phrase it as “for putting up with you all these years”. How about, for being a good and faithful wife through some very hard times she deserves due credit, thanks and respect. Or something along those lines. Now it is my wife who deserves credit for putting up with me “for all those years”. That would be an accurate statement.
Dave the Infidel Sage
May 5, 2008 at 7:59 am